Not a Job posting but more of a hiring job question.

I have obviously heard mixed emotions about working for Equity and the risks that come with it so please refrain from making this post an informational one. I just want peoples opinions on their take from actually already being in that position before. Understanding as a entrepreneur that anything you invest your time into is a calculated risk for yourself and whatever business venture you are attempting to be successful at is key.

Has anyone ever taken the equity position and been successful at it? Or is there anyone who is currently In that position right now or wants to be in that position

What are your skills that you have that makes you interested in an app development start up?

In a world where open source coders work for free, it's very easy to do work that is meaningless and unprofitable at the end. What would it take for you to want to work for a piece of the companies equity when it's stationed at "rock bottom" and hasn't been developed yet?

I believe we fail to talk about this more and people want to push out high dollar numbers without even having a reliable back ground or portfolio. Internships are a great alternative but it's not the same as owning equity or having a common vision that can last due to internships mainly being temp jobs just for an above experience that you may not even have. (Which is the whole purpose of getting a team together who sees and believes the business vision and direction)

Which leads to the next question, What makes a great bunch of workers be a successful team when eating ramen and working 50-60 hours a week just for a vision?

Someones opinion can obviously be altered due to believing the work could help the business become the next big thing and gaining financial success. However, a vision doesn't pay the bills at first so what would it take for you to say yes to a position like this?

Would you require 50% equity shares and be co-founder or would you be more interested in the future possibilities of being a Director over other employees and owning 10%-20% of the companies equity?

It's a lot to think about especially in this every changing economy with how we communicate to each other and programs. What's your opinion on all of this? Do you agree or Disagree?

12 hours ago, ChrisKY26 said:

please refrain from making this post an informational one.

But you are clearly seeking information. You want to figure out how to entice people to work for you on a promise of future cash. That's what's at the bottom of all the questions you ask of people who have worked on a promise of future cash before.  

12 hours ago, ChrisKY26 said:

What makes a great bunch of workers be a successful team when eating ramen and working 50-60 hours a week just for a vision?

Passion for the vision of the team's first game project, coupled with a sincere belief in its likelihood of success, based on a high level of confidence in the others on the team and in the team's leader(s), plus a high degree of trust in the promises made upon joining the team. 

[Edit] Sorry, that was the answer to what makes them eat ramen and work hard. What makes them a successful team is dedicated teamwork, a good working process, and skilled management. And a bunch of other things. 

16 hours ago, ChrisKY26 said:

In a world where open source coders work for free, it's very easy to do work that is meaningless and unprofitable at the end. What would it take for you to want to work for a piece of the companies equity when it's stationed at "rock bottom" and hasn't been developed yet?

 

I believe we fail to talk about this more and people want to push out high dollar numbers without even having a reliable back ground or portfolio. Internships are a great alternative but it's not the same as owning equity or having a common vision that can last due to internships mainly being temp jobs just for an above experience that you may not even have. (Which is the whole purpose of getting a team together who sees and believes the business vision and direction)

Working on open source projects is not meaningless. Contributing to a well known open source project, particularly one where submissions pass a rigorous review process before inclusion, is a more reliable way of demonstrating to potential employers that you are worth employing than a failed attempt at a work for equity project. Even if a work for equity project is successful they still wouldn't know if it's really a hacked together unmaintainable mess underneath - something that they could easily check with an open source project. (That's code focussed, for art assets you could consider things like reuses existing textures or fits within triangle budgets.)

Contributing to open source projects also has the very big advantage that you don't have to commit to working 50-60 hours a week and live off ramen for however long the project takes.

I do want to start off by saying I appreciate both Tom & Dave for replying to this message.

Tom: I'm actually not looking or seeking for information. I was actually looking more into the personal opinion and experiences with, hence the sentence please refrain from making this post an informational one, working with equity instead of cash. I mean startups don't usually have cash at hand nor will banks or anyone else give them loans due to age, experience, etc. so how does one begin making a team without any money? It's not like the idealist who thought of making the team is the only one broke in these scenarios. A lot of college kids work through job shadowing or internships that literally don't pay jack.

Dave: This post wasn't about open source projects vs equity but more both of them have the same issue which is possibly working for free. Once again, I was just looking for personal experiences on if you went through this before or not.

Please, for everyone reading this refrain from making this a debate. I am merely intrigued by the underclass and how they work to survive as a team and not just an individual working a 9-5 just to save up to get a team one day to play catch up.

1 hour ago, ChrisKY26 said:

I'm actually not looking or seeking for information. I was actually looking more into the personal opinion and experiences with, hence the sentence please refrain from making this post an informational one, working with equity instead of cash. I mean startups don't usually have cash at hand nor will banks or anyone else give them loans due to age, experience, etc. so how does one begin making a team without any money?

It sounds to me like you ARE seeking information - you are ultimately seeking the answer to the question, "how does one begin making a team without any money?" 

If you want personal experiences, that too is information. I have had personal experiences with startups, and personal experience consulting for people without game industry experience. I've seen startups go through money problems when someone has to dig down deep and get by for a while. But personally, I have never worked for any project for potential future pay, and I understand you're trying to get stories from people who have done that. I'm just saying that your reason for requesting those stories is to get information:  How to make a team without money. How to get people to work for a promise of future pay.  I can't tell you that - I can't even tell you how to get me personally to work for a promise of future pay. I can't say it's impossible to get me to work like that, but my imagination isn't able to come up with a plausible scenario that would make me do that.

2 hours ago, ChrisKY26 said:

I am merely intrigued by the underclass

Yes, but you keep asking things like "how does one begin making a team without any money?"  You're not looking for a "why" - you're looking for a "how."

2 hours ago, ChrisKY26 said:

Tom: I'm actually not looking or seeking for information. I was actually looking more into the personal opinion and experiences with, hence the sentence please refrain from making this post an informational one, working with equity instead of cash.

One's opinions and experiences are still considered 'information'.

As per the defention:

Definition of information

1: the communication or reception of knowledge or intelligence

2a (1) : knowledge obtained from investigation, study, or instruction

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/information?src=search-dict-hed

2 hours ago, ChrisKY26 said:

I mean startups don't usually have cash at hand nor will banks or anyone else give them loans due to age, experience, etc. so how does one begin making a team without any money?

You either find a team of people willing to work for the common end goal, or you put up personal money, and assets in order to fund your project. This is how I started my first company... I personally invested my own money. If you're unable to get people to work for free, or fund the company/project yourself either through credit or liquid assets then you need to take up side job that makes enough money to fund everything as you go.

Now to answer your initial questions.

On 8/12/2018 at 10:40 AM, ChrisKY26 said:

Has anyone ever taken the equity position and been successful at it?

I can only answer this based on equal splits because I was involved in such projects before but bailed. The reason I stay far away from equity related projects is due to the on going problem of money and who should invest what. I always found myself needing to invest more money and time than the other members to keep the project alive, and I felt like I was getting the short end of the stick. If the project made money we would be sharing in shareholder dividends, but I'm not going to do 70% of the work and majority of the funding so other people can leech.

If I was just an investor it would be different, but I wouldn't invest money into any project for equity unless the only real issue is funding and I'm dealing with people who have a proven track record.

On 8/12/2018 at 10:40 AM, ChrisKY26 said:

Which leads to the next question, What makes a great bunch of workers be a successful team when eating ramen and working 50-60 hours a week just for a vision?

The only way you're going to get a group of people eating ramen and working 50+ hours a week is if these people are extremely devoted to the project and can see the game materializing successfully. At the end of the day people have bills to pay, and working for free for that many hours long term isn't realistic for most people, especially those with families. Yes there are people out there that have done it before, but it's not that common to get someone to devote those kind of hours over a long period of time.

On 8/12/2018 at 10:40 AM, ChrisKY26 said:

Would you require 50% equity shares and be co-founder or would you be more interested in the future possibilities of being a Director over other employees and owning 10%-20% of the companies equity?

This would depend on if this company will hold other titles under it, or just the current project and what I would have to give in time and money for this amount. I wouldn't even look at the 10-20% because the end goal is to generate money, and 50% of shareholder dividends is a better deal.

On 8/12/2018 at 10:40 AM, ChrisKY26 said:

What's your opinion on all of this?

I personally don't even consider projects for equity, or potential revenue. I'm at that stage now where you either pay for my services or find someone else. There are far too many opportunities out there to waste time on projects that may never see the light of day, and that require such a large time and financial investment for potential revenue. Maybe somebody starting out would do this, but I personally wouldn't.

Lord how mercy guys, I don't care about definitions or links. I was just trying to gain some experiences from people from the community. Trolling is probably why half of these forums are dead. It's literally pointless and a driving factor for most forums dead activity. I hate that this one is the same. On to the next.

12 minutes ago, ChrisKY26 said:

Lord how mercy guys, I don't care about definitions or links. I was just trying to gain some experiences from people from the community. Trolling is probably why half of these forums are dead. It's literally pointless and a driving factor for most forums dead activity. I hate that this one is the same. On to the next.

Nobody here is trolling... We've posted our answers so I'm not sure what you're getting at???

I would consider  working for  equity  under the following conditions:

1. I am very passionate about the company's tech

2. I get a unique opportunity to further my career: (like getting VP status very early in my career)

3. I believe the company has a sound buisness plan: More likely to go for a sure million than a longshot billion.

When it comes to making games 1 is easy, but 2 and 3 are hard.